Interview: Ambitious Vegetables - Two Song EP Release

The Ambitious Vegetables 7 inch will be available from selected record stores from Saturday 17th September, including Chas Mannell's own store in Wellington. Expect that KBD scorching sound from a teenage punk band just out of Rongotai College.

The Ambitious Vegetables Are Here!!!

The eighties hadn't really sunk in when Wellington teen punkers the Ambitious Vegetables recorded four of their best songs 'Who Needs it?', 'Prisoner Of Her Majesty', 'Do It To Me', and 'Art Student'. It was the Sunday 10th February 1980 to be precise.

They had come out of Rongotai College where they played their first performance at a lunch time show. In a very punky moment, they included their ode to Headmaster McKay... 'McKay Wanks'. Shortly after headmaster McKay infamously filmed 25 young men being disciplined with a cane onto VHS so the tapes could be studied to improve the way corporal punishment could be inflicted [Corporal punishment was abolished in New Zealand schools in 1990 — Ed.]. Mackay would locally hit the headlines in the Evening Post...

"Touch Toes College Boys Video Taped

About 25 boys have been videotaped in a caning experiment at Rongotai College to see why experienced teachers often "miss the target" and leave boys with embarrassing marks on their lower buttocks.

The experiment was undertaken with the boys' consent, by the principal, Mr Noel Mackay, over a three-week period with boys who were due to be caned for offences."

Whether any Veges were spanked and caught on tape remains to be seen????

Singer Andrew Fagan recalls:

"MacKay's caning regime 'six of the best' and 2 for 'hards on the grass' (not erections, black school shoes) existed long before we got there and for some time after. My understanding was that the bad publicity did eventually lead to his leaving under a cloud of suspicion. Don't know if any of us got caned, I never did.

After he found out we sang the song at assembly, (audio and vocal clarity wasn't up to much), he conducted a witch hunt and we ended up in his office facing the inevitable six of the best. But to his credit he said that in the eyes of the law, him caning us would be seen as revenge in the eyes of the law so he let us off.

There was teacher speculation that we would be punished academically but he wrote in my report at the end of the year that 'I was using my time and talents well'... haha... go figure..."

When Saturday Night Fever was at an all time high — the Veges were fuelling themselves on The Damned, Dead Boys, Sex Pistols as well as the burgeoning local 'punk scene'. Andrew and Chas Mannell attended the infamous 1978 Wellington Town Hall Punk extravaganza, as documented by TVNZ's Eyewitness with the Scavengers, Assassins.

In February 1980 the Ambitious Vegetables recorded two songs with engineer Tony Burns in single live takes that captured their scorching intensity. Singer Andrew Fagan, bassist Gareth Curtis and drummer Chas Mannell would later form The Mockers...

On the eve of the release of a 7 inch 45 of 'Prisoner' and 'Who Needs It?' on In Search of Fuzzz, we caught up with three of the Veges with invaluable assistance and questions from Wellington Punk rock historian Dave Maclennan.

Ambitious Vegetables present are:

Andrew Fagan – vocals
Gordon Costello – bass
Chas Mannell – drums

Not present at time of interview:

Peter Henderson - Guitar
Gareth Curtis - Guitar

 

Dave Maclennan: How old were you all at the time of the recording?

Andrew: 17.

Gordon: Just turned 17.

Chas: 16.

What was it like at Rongotai College? What was it like being into punk and new wave at that time?

Andrew: Unusual as Saturday Night Fever and disco was in its ascendancy.

Gordon: Most of my friends weren’t into that scene, but they supported us anyway. We were all just having fun, really.

Chas: Rongotai was a very traditional college. Most of the other students didn't like punk. We rehearsed in the school music room at lunchtimes which was right next door to another bigger room where they had disco-dancing classes. It wasn't an all-out war, but we did get loads of derogatory comments.

Were you balancing being punk musicians with being scholarly or warriors on the cricket or football fields?

Andrew: Yes. I was doing Latin and was the Wellington Provincial Starling (sailing) champion at the time...

Gordon: A little bit. But eventually I left school, ‘cause I wanted to concentrate on the band.

Chas: If you weren't in the First XV, or into athletics, Rongotai wasn't much interested.

Any memorable teacher related anecdotes?

Andrew: See press release...

Gordon: Our first ever gig was in the school lunch room just playing for our classmates. I remember one of my teachers told my parents she thought it was great that we were getting up and trying something different.

Chas: As Gordon mentioned, a gig in front of class-mates in the lunch room as well as one at Wellington Girl's College.

What was first punk influence on you Gordon - RWPics? Hearing the Damned? Seeing Toy Love??

Gordon: My brother went to England during the height of the punk explosion, and brought back some records by the Sex Pistols and the Clash. I was learning guitar at the time, and the songs were easy to play, so I practiced with them a lot.

What was the Wellington punk scene like at the time?

Andrew: Lots of standing around looking unusual and lots of spitting at the band on stage...

Gordon: It was a small community. Everyone knew everyone. Mostly just kids like us, just getting out and playing music anywhere we could.

Chas: We were sort-of adopted by the guys in The Wallsockets. Used to go to their house in Arthur Street (long before the street was widened for the by-pass) to eat toast and chat. Ended up playing alongside them and Shoes This High at the Thistle Hall at the end of the road.

Did you ever see the Auckland punks coming down in 1978, as filmed by Neil Robert and Eyewitness at the time?

Andrew: Yes Chas and I went to the Wellington Town Hall and saw an Auckland punk roadshow with the Suburban Reptiles, The Scavengers and many others that left a huge exciting impression on us.

Gordon: Not really. Must’ve missed that bit of excitement.

Chas: Went to this with Andrew. A bit of an eye-opener for us seeing these rock-star Auckland punks like Johnny Volume etc. May have been the spur to form The Veges later that year.

Recording those tracks was your first time in a big studio, wasn’t it? How did that feel? Was it intimidating in any way? The end result certainly captured your sound well, I thought.

Gordon: Peter had done a fair bit of studio work before, so we sort of followed his lead, I think. Also Tony, the engineer, was very encouraging, and helped us to feel relaxed about it. I still feel proud of the recordings. We were all about energy, and that really came across.

Chas: Really enjoyed that studio time. Like we were an actual band at last.

How much did adding Peter Henderson change the band’s music? To me, it certainly seemed to toughen up your sound a lot.

Gordon: Yes, we needed that extra guitar to really fill out our sound. Also, I was still just learning guitar, and couldn’t do much with solos – having Peter really lifted our game in that respect.

Chas: Basically what Gordon said. Filled out the sound a lot. Peter was only 21, but we saw him as 'the old man' of the group.

How did Andrew Fagan quitting affect the dynamic of the band?

Gordon: We tried to find a new singer to replace him, but no-one we auditioned had that kind of stage presence. In the end, I stepped up to take on the vocals as well as still playing guitar. That was OK, but we were never quite the same. Gary left too, and was replaced by my brother Murray on bass. That changed the sound a fair bit, too, and we lost Gary’s rapidly developing songwriting skills also.

Chas: Hard to replace Andrew as he was becoming the showman we all knew and loved in the 80's. We tried a few singers to replace Andrew. One has his picture in "Stranded In Paradise" trying out for us (Joe Vekony). The other notable candidate was Gerry Moran who was one of Wellington punk's 'ace-faces'. He later became involved with The Hulamen, Jungle Mice and Vas Deferens.

You were quite busy as a band during those early months of 1980, but then you broke up. What precipitated that? You seemed to be quite busy as a band around that time. Did you just get tired of it, or did Andrew quitting have something to do with it, or what?

Gordon: We didn’t really break up, we kind of slowly morphed into being a different band with a different sound. Eventually, we lost Charlie on drums as well. Then we decided to change the name, because we didn’t feel like the Ambitious Vegetables any more, so we became The Red instead.

Chas: I can't remember why we ended up breaking up. By the end I think I had been approached by Andrew with an idea of forming a mod band which was becoming popular in the UK... think Purple Hearts, Secret Affair etc. This band became The Mockers when we got Gary back. I think Gordon, Peter and Murray were keener on the rockier sound of bands like The Members etc. so they became The Red.

Looking back, I felt that there was a bit of a difference between the first generation of musicians and fans on the Wellington punk scene, whose musical influences went back a lot further than 1977 and whose music was already more post-punk than punk, and the younger, newer generation who took their inspiration more from the likes of the Sex Pistols, the Damned and so on — such as the Ambitious Vegetables. How did you see it, then or now?

Gordon: I don’t think I was really aware of that history so much at the time. I know more about it now, and looking back, I’d have to agree. There was certainly a difference in style between the likes of the Steroids, for example, and us. I’ve gotta say that, to a certain degree, our style was formed not so much out of our influences as by the fact that we were still learning to play our instruments and had some limitations in that regard. But we were lucky to have a drummer like Charlie who could play fast and tight — and that was what we really wanted to do.

Chas: I think the older bands were influenced by groups like The Velvet Underground, The Doors etc. We were only at college and influenced by the crop of punk bands being played on Radio With Pictures every week. I still remember the thrill of our first practice at Rongotai College when Gordon blasted out the intro to 'Pretty Vacant' and then I thumped out the start of 'New Rose'... those tracks still take me straight back to being 16!

Listening back at the tracks we recorded at the time, I'm quite impressed with our sound. I think Mike Gibson, who mastered the up-coming single, said it sounded like a freight train speeding out of his studio speakers!

Video clip is the later line up of the Ambitious Vegetables performing a later version of 'Who Needs It?'. Gareth and Andrew had departed by then.

Gordon's brother Murray had become a Vege.

Andrew said this week after watching the video:

"OMG!!!!! Just watched that vid! Great!
BUT!!!!!!!!!!! Tell MURRAY COSTELLO that I WANT MY INSIDE OUT VANCE VIVIAN CORDUROY JACKET BACK!!!!!!
I always wondered where I lost it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or had it!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Gordon Costello recently with the master tape.