Interview: Wiri Donna Chats With James Goldsmith About 'In My Chambers' EP + More
Finalist for the 2023 Best Independent Debut Award, Wiri Donna aka Bianca Bailey chatted with producer extraordinaire James Goldsmith (Beastwars, DARTZ), about the close collaborative process of recording her forthcoming In My Chambers EP, building trust in the studio, leading a life in the arts and lots more. Embracing a new era of guitar-blazing rock, preorder the vinyl edition of In My Chambers HERE before it launches in full this Friday, and catch the Pōneke artist's nationwide release tour with band in November...
Wiri Donna - 'In My Chambers' Release Tour
Friday 15th November - Darkroom, Ōtautahi / Christchurch
Saturday 16th November - Yours, Ōtepoti / Dunedin
Thursday 21st November - Paisley Stage, Ahuriri
Friday 22nd November - Last Place, Kirikiriroa / Hamilton
Saturday 23rd November - Double Whammy, Tāmaki Makaurau / Auckland
Friday 6th December - San Fran, Pōneke / Wellington*
Tickets on sale HERE via UTR (affordable ticketing options available)
*Wellington tickets available via Moshtix
This is James and Bianca sitting down, two very serious creatives… incredibly serious… we got straight to business with this chat, the heavy stuff first.
Wiri Donna: What drives you to work in the arts?
James Goldsmith: Honestly? I don’t know how to do anything else! But also, I’ve always loved music — it’s been a part of my life for as long as I can remember. I guess I’m kind of stuck in it now, but in the best way.
I’ve been thinking a lot about joy recently. There’s so much out there that’s not joyful, you know? But when you get it right, what we do can really bring people a lot of joy.
Exactly! That’s one of the best parts—collaborating. I get to focus on what I’m good at, and bring in others who are great at what they do. It’s like this exchange of talents. The best feeling is helping someone realise their vision and creating something that has an impact, even if the music is sad or heavy. There’s still something powerful in it.
Yeah, that reminds me of how I always circle back to rock music. It’s kind of become my default answer for everything. But when I say “rock music”, it’s more than just the genre — it’s the energy and the joy it can bring, no matter what form it takes.
Thinking back to when we first started recording, I didn’t know much beyond having written some songs and playing them with the band. We just wanted to record what we had.
Yeah, that’s pretty much the essence of making a record!
But it felt so different the second time around, compared to the first.
That’s because we were more comfortable with each other. The first time, you came in with songs you’d been playing live, and we were like, “Cool, let’s record these.” We got to know each other through the process — figuring out how the pieces fit together. By the end of that first record, we knew each other’s style and preferences. So by the time we started on the second record, we had a head start. I already knew your intentions, what you liked and didn’t, and that let us push things further.
I remember that demo day at Massey during the 'Big Pop' live session. We were testing out songs that we’d barely played as a band. You told me, “Bianca, some of these songs sound like you’ve been listening to too much Dry Cleaning or Black Country, New Road,” and it was such a good reality check. It reminded me to find my own voice.
I think I said something like, “These songs are cool, but where’s the Wiri Donna in them?” It wasn’t about shutting down your influences, but about helping you refine your sound.
Yeah, that feedback was a turning point for me. It made me realise that this wasn’t just a typical recording experience — you were genuinely invested in the project. It felt like a true collaboration.
I have to be invested. If I’m not aiming for the best outcome, what’s the point? Otherwise, I’d just be pressing record, and that’s no fun.
How does that mindset influence the way you show up as a recording engineer?
I’ve worked with a lot of people over the years. I’ve gone through three records with Beastwars — started with them around 2015, so that’s almost ten years now. I’ve also had long partnerships, like with Grayson Gilmour. Even though we don’t work together as much anymore, it’s because our lives are in different places, but it’s always been an evolving process. I also worked on three Mermaidens records, and it’s always interesting to see how things shift and grow with each project. It’s healthy when people want to move in a new direction.
Do you notice any changes or patterns in long-term collaborations, like with Beastwars, where you’ve gone through multiple album cycles?
Definitely. Every time I work with an artist, I come in with what we’ve learned from past projects. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve become more confident in asking, “What do I want to get out of this?” even though it’s never my album. Sometimes, I’ll throw in something obvious, but other times it’s more subtle — things I want to accomplish within my own practice.
Should we talk about some of the changes you brought to In My Chambers?
Sure! Which change should we start with? But we should definitely mention that the changes never took away from the songs themselves. That’s important.
I felt like going into this record, I really wanted to make a rock record.
You mentioned that a lot! The first thing you said to me was “doom doom”, and I thought, “I don’t think you’re making a doom record.” I think it was because you had that song called “Doom”, which wasn’t actually a doom song; it was just kind of sludgy.
There were some riffs in that song that I really liked, and I’ll circle back to them one day, but they just didn’t serve the purpose of the record. The point is, from the outset, there was more intention behind this record. We had a clear goal and an artistic vision; it wasn’t just “Here are the songs we’ve written; let’s go record them.”
Exactly. It was more like, “These are the songs; how are we going to best execute them in a recorded setting?”
A completely different approach from what I was mentally prepared for last time.
For me, the first subtle thing was in 'The Gold'.
You’re not even going to mention 'Hell or Highwater'?
Ah, true! That was definitely on my mind, but we’re going in track listing order. Workflow is key here!
Absolutely. For me, recording was always about laying down the parts we can play live. But then you added that breakbeat sample to 'The Gold'.
Right! I heard something in the rhythm and thought, “This could fill a gap.” I didn’t add it until after we’d left the studio, though. I sent it back in a bounce. The guitar line Elliott (Dawson) was playing had this weird phaser sound that reminded me of ’90s nu-metal. My brain just made that leap, and I thought, “Fill the gap!”
I was so drawn to that main guitar riff! I kept playing it throughout the whole song — it’s so circular that you just want to keep playing it. I was having a blast!
Exactly! I knew that your riff was the one that birthed the song. It’s still there, just not in the verses because it didn’t need to be.
But the breakbeat definitely did, and I really liked that.
That didn’t take much convincing either!
No, that one was an easy win. 'In My Chambers' was also pretty straightforward. We added a few things here and there, but it largely stayed the same.
We recorded that vocal twice because it was way too chill.
Right! I was way too relaxed. I should’ve been angry! But I was having such a good time singing it. That’s always a challenge, isn’t it? Writing angry music when you’re feeling like trash, but by the time it comes to recording, you’re having the time of your life and the anger isn’t there anymore.
'Stop Charades' was pretty straightforward too, no qualms.
Agreed, no qualms. It’s probably the most similar track on the record to the previous one. Apart from that song, I did manage to do all the BVs myself this time around instead of outsourcing them to James MacEwan. I feel like that’s a cool development!
James: So, let’s talk about 'Bad Behaviour'.
Yeah, 'Bad Behaviour' is actually the focal point of this conversation, right?
Absolutely! It’s the epitome of what a song can become when an engineer and a songwriter truly trust each other.
The demo of that song, where it started compared to what it became, is almost unrecognisable. It was a lot slower back then, for sure.
Right! When I first heard the bridge, I thought, “Holy shit, this is a banger!” It has those best parts of early 2000s English rock—like Bloc Party and Franz Ferdinand. The groove was there, but the bridge was just so good that the rest of the song wasn’t fully written yet. I’m being polite here; you had some ideas, but you weren’t really sold on anything. The bass line was happy, which didn’t match the vibe we were going for at all. I was like, “This needs to be faster!”
Right! It was a bit of a mess. I had to rewrite the verses, but I didn’t want to do that until we figured out what the bass and guitars were going to do.
Exactly! We kind of had to rebuild it from scratch. In the studio, we realised that none of the band really knew what they wanted to play outside of the chorus and bridge. Elliott was playing these jazzy chords, and he said, “I don’t really like this; I just didn’t know what else to play.”
I don’t even remember what I was playing at that point. Do you have any of the early demos?
Oh yeah! When did we record it? Was it August?
Yeah, it was in July. The initial version was just drums and a chorus, and then we hit a wall where we weren’t doing much with the song for a while.
And then there was that bridge, but still no vocals!
Exactly! We wrote everything else, but I kept feeling like the lyrics just didn’t fit anymore.
Right! You felt the lyrics made sense in the context of the earlier version, but when the song became darker, it shifted the meaning.
Yeah, it changed from being about personal experiences to this storytelling exercise about getting even. I had to explore what the song was really about.
And it fit so much better with the theme of the EP!
It really did! It went from being this half-written outlier to a song that actually fits within the context of the record.
I remember being determined that we had to make it work. It was a fight!
But we were all on the same team. We weren’t fighting against each other; we were battling the song itself, pushing for something better.
Exactly! Battling, battling, battling! And then, finally, success!
Which brings us to 'Hell or Highwater', a true battle.
[laughs] The chorus melody isn’t the chorus melody, you know? The chorus melody is a harmony, and the actual chorus melody is the heart of the song. I said, “This is the chorus melody,” and you were like, “No, it’s not!” It took the entire recording process—even to the point where we were singing it—and Harry said, “The melody clashes with everything.”
But that feedback came after the 'Big Pop' session when we did the live session. You immediately chopped up the entire structure of the song.
The first thing I thought was, “Look, this could be a great song, but the structure is lacking.” So I just subtly chopped it up and sent it back to you, saying, “This is what I think the structure could be.”
I think we went through about three rounds of that back and forth until you were happy with it.
Right, and then you were still going to play it the other way live!
[laughs] Technically, I was struggling to manage all the pedal settings I needed to activate at once! I wanted to go into the outro section while singing and then go back to the chorus. It seemed like a tall ask to get me to do all those changes in a split second.
But when it came to recording, you finally had that full-circle realisation: “Yeah, this structure is way better.”
[laughs] A recurring theme, it seems — James is mostly always right.
'In My Chambers' is out on Friday 25th October, preorder the vinyl LP edition HERE.
instagram.com/wiri.donna/
wiridonna.bandcamp.com/album/in-my-chambers
linktr.ee/WiriDonna
instagram.com/jamesgoldsmith/
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