Interview - REforms: Shayne P. Carter and the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, Lōemis Festival 2026

This week's REforms concert event in Te Whanganui-a-Tara Wellington is the culmination of years if not decades of musical mahi. Following the roundly well-received release of their collaborative album late last year, Shayne Carter and New Zealand Symphony Orchestra will reunite to premiere REforms live at Michael Fowler Centre on Friday 19th June, as part of Lōemis 2026 music and arts winter festival. Conducted by Hamish McKeich and featuring arrangements by Tane Upjohn Beatson (who also co-produced the record), REforms is an orchestral "reform"-ing of highlights from Carter's multi-award-winning songbook.

Hamish McKeich and Tane Upjohn Beatson generously found the time to get together and reflect on how this very special multi-layered project came to be, and the intricacies involved. Read their illuminating give and take on REforms below, expertly moderated by Tom Cardy...

REforms: Shayne P. Carter and the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra
Friday 19th June - Michael Fowler Centre, Wellington (8pm)
Tickets on sale via loemis.nz

Hamish McKeich: I think the first time I had contact with (Shayne) was with The Adults. That concert I did years ago, he was playing and we got on really well. Then he came to quite a few concerts I conducted, especially the contemporary ones, as he was getting into orchestral music. He popped up in all sorts of gigs which is nice. He was a very keen concert-goer and we always caught up at those times. Obviously I knew him from his Dimmer days. I knew of him for years, it took me a while to meet him.

Tane Upjohn Beatson: I only met Shayne with regards to this project, we hadn't met in person beforehand. I was well aware of his work of course in Straitjacket Fits. But I think the first one I came in contact with was Dimmer as well. That album I Believe Your Are A Star, I remember it being on The Rock FM when I was in high school, and cranking that while I did my homework.

Tane: For me it was clear (why I wanted to work with Shayne). Two things: Shayne's love of texture. When he talked about music, regardless of whether it was Slayer or Beethoven or whatever, it was always texture we were talking about, in a really synaesthetic way. What is this sound like as it comes off the speaker or it moves around the room, and how does that make you feel? It was never about sophisticated words like harmony or orchestration, it was more about a sculptural approach to sound. I thought that was very exciting, he really wanted to push things.

The other thing that attracted me, was just how much hew wanted to take it somewhere a little bit fresh. He expressed in the first meeting how he was quite dissatisfied with a lot of orchestral rock crossovers. I was very pleased to hear that, because I was too. We talked about certain ones, he said these ones might have missed the point a bit. The point is the orchestra is this amazing sound timbre emotion machine and we need to harness that, and take it to the full extent that the songs are asking. Rather than just adding a nice layer.

Hamish: Yeah pretty much the same (for me), it was all texture. The concerts with The Adults, he occupied a space which I didn't know existed in the sound world. He got in there and changed things up and that was really interesting. Texture (was) a big part of what he was playing at that time with that project. I always thought it would be good to have him with the orchestra in a more pronounced way.

Hamish: I think Shayne was absorbing so much from concert-going, that would have informed what he wanted (for REforms).

Tane: I think that's really right Hamish. Remember this album came out of a concert, first of all. It was this awesome concert where the first half was a programme of classical pieces curated by Shayne, and the second half were — about half the tracks on the album were orchestrated and played live. Shayne had really thought carefully about his orchestral taste, and the kind of colours and feelings he liked from the orchestra. It wasn't so much about him saying, "This is your world, you do what you want with it." This is, "These are the things I connect with."

Of course there are also aspects of (REforms) — especially once it became a record as opposed to a concert — that developed as we went. On the record we actually ended up adding in some elements which weren't strictly live. I think some of them are going to come through the concert.

For instance, on the one new track on the album 'Left To Defend', there's a drum track which is really important to the groove. We tried to get the tune going without that, just with the orchestra for a start, and it was always missing something, so we brought in the drum track. It's mixed in the foreground, it's not like a drummer with the orchestra, it's really foreground like rock. In fact, we even double track it, we've got two drum kits and left and right. It's this really epic kind of sound.

The other thing is backing vocals, bringing in Vera Ellen — an amazing vocalist – has this lovely feminine vocal element through 'Left To Defend'. It reminds me of those early Leonard Cohen tracks, where you've got that deep male voice and that sort of ethereal angelic female voice on the top. Another thing we did was re-amping some elements and playing them back in the room. So we did add things in the record realm later.

Hamish: Doing the recording you can fiddle around with all these things. There'll be a few things with the bass flute and octave flute, which is for balance live always a bit tricky, so we'll have to deal with that. You can manipulate stuff with the recording fantastically.

Hamish: I have (listened to REforms recently) because it's been a while since we recorded it, at least eighteen months... It was multi-tracked, so not everyone together at the same time, it was hard to get a good feel. So it was nice to revisit, when I heard the album very much so. Tane did a great job by the way, it was really nice to hear them in their entirety. Big ups.

Tane: It was a long process. There was a lot of work that went on after the recordings. A lot of editing, because as Hamish said it's recorded in sections. Then there is a bit of studio magic, in terms of making it sound like the appropriate hybrid of studio production and live orchestra. Because it had to meet in the middle somewhere. If we went too real on the mixes the songs didn't feel genuine. Obviously, if we went too hyped in the studio on it, it lost its soul. There was a lot of back and forward — editing and re-recording vocals and backing vocals. Adding elements, cutting elements out. Then Graham Kennedy did amazing work on the mixes.

We had to go around and around and around. Because we didn't have any examples that we were trying to work to. We knew when it was right, but we didn't know, "It needs to be exactly this." We couldn't point at another record and copy it. We had to get there with painstaking revision and sculpting. That was most of 2024 and a bit of 2025 I think, going around and around and around the mixes. Eventually there came a time where like any project, you're so close to it and you still want to tinker with it. But the little voice in my head was saying, "I think we'll let this one go now."

It's nice having this amount of space. Now I listen to it and I think it's wonderful, I think it's become what it needed to be. But at the end of the process it's heartbreaking, because you're so deeply in it. I'm sure Shayne feels the same way.

Hamish: I think from a concert point of view, Shayne's known as a guitarist and a singer. But this (concert at Lōemis festival) is going to spotlight his singing more. A certain amount of intimacy will come from that. The songs are quite intimate and introspective. That will all come out and also gives a lot of space for the orchestra, all the lovely colours that Tane's made happen. So (it will) be more transparent than maybe people are expecting, the big fans of his music. I'd say it'll be more intriguing for sure.

Tane: That's a really good point about the vocals. The vocals are mic-ed obviously and the orchestra is not, they sit in relief to the orchestra to some extent, which is a really cool effect. And really allows a level of rawness and occasionally vulnerability from the vocal, that you might not actually hear in the band context. I think it's quite moving, it's quite powerful.

The punk attitude has been maintained, like it's quite divisive. I remember Classical FM said they got complaints after they were asked to play 'Crystalator'. I think Shayne would be exceptionally proud, that was always the goal. But at the same time there is great beauty and delicacy in it... extremes in it. I think that's quite exciting. You don't have to love it. It's allowed to challenge you. Whether either extreme challenges you, I think that's a strength of it.

Hamish: I agree [laughs]. All I say is, your chance to buy a ticket now and go to the concert — the time is nigh. I'll see you all there, whoever you are.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.